Suzanne (00:05):

Hello, and welcome to the Midlife Business Show with Suzanne Mountain. This is the podcast that celebrates all those of us who are building a business during our middle years. I’m an ex corporate girl who started my business six years ago in my fifties. And I’m loving it. This podcast is here to inspire you with conversations with other entrepreneurs about the messy and magical ups and downs of this period of our lives. Plus, I’ll be sharing simple, actionable step by step strategies to help you build a business with impact and a life that you love. 

 

Hello today, I’m joined by the lovely Jo Hall and Jo is a professional home organiser and founder of Less Is More. She helps busy women and sometimes men live and work in rooms  they love through supporting them to declutter, organise and style their homes. 

Welcome Jo, 

Jo Hall (01:01):

Hello, Suzanne. Thanks very much for inviting me.

Suzanne (01:04):

You’re very welcome. So start by telling me why you set up this business.

Jo Hall (01:10):

Okay. So I set up my business because I am absolutely obsessed with the use of space, particularly living spaces, but also working spaces. I’m an absolute homemaker and I can  go into any where and immediately want to set it up for a  kind of optimal living both from a functional point of view, but also, with an eye on the way it looks. And this job allows me to do that every single day. And I get to meet lovely, lovely people at the same time. So that’s a bonus.

Suzanne (01:46):

Yeah. It’s always a bonus if we love our clients. Isn’t it. So tell me about optimal living. Explain that a little bit more. You did say a little bit about it there, but give me an example of what that might mean.

Jo Hall  (01:59):

Well, I think if we took a kitchen, for example, the easier it is to find things, to see things, to know what you have, then the easier it is to prepare meals, the easier it is to shop, to meal plan, and also to make sure that we are not wasting things

Suzanne (02:20):

And you mention not wasting things. I know that your values and ethics are really strong in your business. So tell me about what they are and how you integrate them into the way that you work.

Jo Hall (02:33):

Yeah. So I’m really, really careful that when I go and work with people, I don’t just help them to get rid of things, but I help them to move those things on and way that means that they don’t end up going to waste. So that’s something I’m very, very passionate about. 

A lot of what I do involves talking to people about different ways for rehoming things, either selling them or donating them or recycling them. And then as an absolute last resort, sending them to waste.

Suzanne  (03:08):

And if someone’s working with you, are they required to go out and buy things in advance of working for you?

Jo Hall (03:16):

No, absolutely not. In fact, I recommend the opposite because really until people have been through the decluttering purpose, there’s no way of knowing what we really need. So that’s something that I’m very keen to stress with people before we start, we’ll do the decluttering phase first. And then when we see what’s left and we get onto the organising phase, first of all, we’ll use what they already have around their house. Maybe they have things in other parts of their house or that they’re using in a different way, boxes, baskets, that sort of thing, that we can actually then use to organise what they’re keeping. And then as a last resort, I would find them maybe some additional boxes, baskets, whatever that would actually help them organise their things better, or even, you know, actual storage units, depending on what they have. So it’s very much looking at what’s there, first of all.

Suzanne (04:14):

Mm that’s lovely. And I love that you use things they’ve already got. Although I have to say today, I got a gorgeous hamper,  delivered by one of my lovely clients filled with lovely M and S food products, which is fantastic. Nice but,  I’m looking at the wicker hamper and I’m thinking, ‘okay, I have to find a good use for this, or I have to pass it onto a charity shop or somewhere where someone might buy it and find a good use’. So it’s like having you on my shoulder telling me, ‘unless you’ve got somewhere for that to go in something for it to do, that’s useful to you, Suzanne you really shouldn’t be keeping it’.

Jo Hall(04:49):

Yeah, definitely. Because if you can’t make use of it, then I’m sure somewhere, some somewhere will be able to.

Suzanne(04:55):

Yeah. Yeah. That’s good. So I get the functional part and how it works for the kitchen and things. Tell me how your eye for detail really comes in and your ability to envisage what the space might look like.

Jo Hall (05:11):

I think for this, it’s having somebody else’s eyes, a fresh pair of eyes on a space because when we live in a space for of time, we see it every day, we get used to it looking in one certain way and we lose that kind of ability to actually think about how it could perhaps work differently. 

So I think that one of the main things that I can help people with is seeing it from a totally different perspective and asking them, you know, have they thought about moving things around in the room?

Have they thought about moving things in, from different rooms in the house? 

Have they thought about using what they have in a completely different way? And so that’s one aspect of it. 

And then I think the second aspect of it is because I’ve had an interest in interiors, in buildings, in house spaces used for many, many years, including building our own house in Austria. 

I have got some fresh ideas I can bring to it. Some things that people maybe haven’t thought about. And one of the things I’m particularly interested in is actually the use of space within smaller houses. People that don’t have the luxury of rooms and rooms and rooms, um, and actually making the use of a small space and using it absolutely optimally.

Suzanne (06:37):

So tell us a little bit about how you came to build your own house in Austria. That’s fascinating.

Jo Hall (06:43):

So we’ve been living in Austria for a few years and we actually thought we were going to settle there long term because we absolutely loved it. And both my husband and I have got an interest in architecture, and design and building design and where we were living in the Furberg part of Austria. It’s actually very common to build your own house. And more people do that. They tend to rent, many living in apartments, to start with. And then they either are in a lucky position where they inherit land from their family, or they buy a generally small pot of land. And then there are some amazing architects in that area and they really create some, some wonderful, wonderful buildings. So we’d seen that around us and thought, wow, if we’re going to do something like that, this could be the place to do it.

 

So we looked for a plot of land and we found one, but we then, really took our time in choosing our architect, choosing exactly the person that we wanted to work with and understood the way that we wanted to live as a family. And then we actually worked with him over quite a long period of time to really get that right. So we put in a lot of time before the building actually even started. But even then once you’ve finished, there is always, always something that you would’ve done differently. There’s always something that you learn from it, but we’ve sold that house. Now we’ve taken the learning from that and we hope to do it again one day.

Suzanne (08:16):

Wow. Wow. You would do it again. That’s amazing. Definitely.

Jo Hall (08:19):

Definitely. Because for us it was actually, almost the build and the journey from buying the piece of land to having the finished house was almost more important for us than the actual finished house. Although we absolutely adored the finished house

Suzanne (08:36):

To me, that just sounds like a major stress and not something that I’d ever want to consider. So it just shows how, you know, we’re all different. And each of us has things that we’d find exciting to be part of. Whereas for me, that just feels like, oh, I just want someone to have done all that stuff for me. I think

Suzanne (08:59):

So I’m aware that you work online. Yeah. Explain to me how you provide your services online.

Jo Hall  (09:05):

Okay. So just to kind of backtrack a little bit, the reason that started was because I was talking to people who wanted to work with me, um, but they lived further away from me and I don’t want to spend all my time traveling. So trying to put my services online and experimenting in that area seemed like a natural next step. So the way that works is after I have an initial chat with people, they send me photos of the rooms or rooms, or even than the whole house that they want to. They want me to have a look at and then I send them some questions. I ask them kind of their vision for their rooms or their vision for their house and try and kind of uncover also where they are at the moment, why they are, where they are at the moment and where they want to get to.

And then we have sessions via WhatsApp or Zoom, and we talk about what they want to achieve and how they’re going to achieve it. I give them ideas, we make a plan together and then that’s followed up with accountability checks to keep them on track with their project and further calls to see how they’re doing. They have the opportunity to ask me questions, to send me photos of their progress so that I can keep encouraging them along the way. And then we work together for, you know, for however long’s necessary, again, depending on whether it’s one room or all the whole house.

Suzanne (10:37):

So, you know, I’m fortunate enough to have experienced these services with you twice. Once when we were preparing to move home and you helped us get the house ready to go on the market, which was just such an eye opening experience for me and such a testament to you and your incredible eye for detail and yeah. A reflection on how we don’t see things when we’ve lived in somewhere for very long. And then obviously when I was moving into my new home and sorting my kitchen out so that I knew exactly where everything was going to go on day one and and reduce the stress. So I can certainly account for how successful working online with you is you, even though it blew my mind to think about how that might work to start with, what’s been the biggest challenge for you with regards to your business?

Jo Hall (11:27):

I would say because I’m a non-millennial, it’s been the technology really. The technology, because there’s just so much that you need to know.

Suzanne (11:35):

And was there any particular piece of technology?

Jo Hall (11:39):

I don’t think so. I think technology generally, but having said that I found it difficult. I have enjoyed the challenge of it. And one of the things that I said to myself when I started my business was that I was going to use it to learn the technology. And so I’ve really tried, I suppose I’ve made it difficult for myself because I’ve really tried to do things myself as much as possible. 

So I created my own website for example, and that’s a huge, huge learning curve. And of course there’ve been frustrations along the way. 

Suzanne (12:13):

Yeah. And you’re right. There’s two ways to approach it. Isn’t there.  There’s the, I can pay someone to do this and, and for some people that’s absolutely the right thing for them to do.  To say, okay, I know I need this doing, but you know, it’s not in my zone of genius and I don’t want to learn. So I’m prepared to pay someone to do it. Or actually, this is a challenge that I’m going to do myself and therefore maybe I’ll pay someone to teach me or I’ll follow the trainings that are provided, but I’m gonna learn it. So how long has your business been running now?

Jo Hall (12:47):

Since June, 2018,

Suzanne (12:49):

Right. Okay. So the nearly, well, three and a half coming in, what’s your best business tip to somebody who’s starting their business.

Jo Hall (13:00):

I think for somebody who’s starting their business to surround themselves by people that are going to support them because it can be a very lonely thing. So you need and, and I mean, you know, proper support.

Suzanne  (13:17):

So yeah, I, I completely agree. I had my own business, my very first business back in the, uh, late 2000 and, um, late 1990s, early two, two thousands. And, um, I was just a one man band. I didn’t have the network or the connections. And it became, when things got difficult. When we headed into the 2008 recession, it became really, really isolating. And it was one of the reasons I went back into corporate life at that point, because I just didn’t have that support network around me and time when I was setting up this business in 2016, that was one of the things that I’m really passionate about is that nobody should feel the way that I felt at that time. Nobody should feel isolated or that they’re the only person going through whatever it is they’re going through or they’re the only person struggling or whatever. 

And also that they’ve got no one who gets what the small accomplishment of connecting two bits of software might feel like, or, or, you know, getting a new client approach you on social media. So nowhere to sort of celebrate those victories and frustrations. And that was one of the reasons that, you know, I’ve set up my online communities. , Facebook is to make sure that that people have somewhere they can go.

Speaker 2 (14:42):

Yeah. And I’ve, I’ve really loved being part of that. Um, unfortunately I have been part of that for not absolutely since the beginning, but, um, for, for the majority of time that I’ve been running my business and it has been absolutely invaluable, you know, knowing that people are there and they’re going through the same things as you, and they’re ready to help you, you know, they’re your cheerleaders and it, and it’s incredible. It’s an incredible feeling to know that there are people out there. And I guess that’s one of the real benefits also that technology has brought us because they’re there all the time for us.

Speaker 1 (15:16):

Yeah. And, and also, you know, I’m always pleased and still sometimes surprised at the depth of relationships that you can build in these online communities, if you are in the right community, you know, where people come become real friends and, you know, and actually if distance and geography allows, you know, meet up, but certainly connect outside of the community and, and genuinely support each other and through life events, not just business events as well.

Jo Hall (15:47):

Absolutely. But I think as you’ve said, the key thing there is making sure that is the right group for you.

Suzanne (15:53):

Yeah. Yeah. And that’s true. I was reading something actually just before we came on, where somebody was saying that they were in this group and when they go on, you know, into the group and they read what other people are posting, it makes them feel bad about where their business is. Not because the people are being nasty or unpleasant, but all these from, you know, reading into what this individual is saying, it sounds like everybody else in their business is significantly further along than this woman is who was, who was writing this post. And she’s comparing where her business is with where their businesses are or where she thinks their businesses are and finding herself lacking and then feeling bad about it. And, you know, I wanted to jump in and just say, you know, it doesn’t sound like that’s the right place for you to be, you know, maybe in time. But if, if they’re feeling like that and she feels, it’s a bit cliquey, you know, and she’s not, she tries to join in, but she’s not getting engagement. You know, if it’s not working for you, you and you’re, and you’re not feeling it and you’re not getting what you want from it, then walk away and go and find somewhere else. There’s plenty of communities to choose from. Isn’t there.

Jo Hall (17:03):

I completely agree. I mean, there is no point in being part of something that isn’t making you feel good every single time you go in there.

Suzanne (17:12):

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So what piece of advice would you give to your younger self now?

Jo Hall (17:20):

I think it would be around believing in myself. Believing in myself and also believing that there’s no hurry and that it’s not too late. I kind of have this feeling that I sort of had my life mapped out. And I felt as though I should be doing a certain thing by a certain time and going down a particular route. And I almost kind of had not, not a time limit on it, but I felt as though I was in a bit of a hurry. And I think now in hindsight, I believe in myself far more, I believe in my ability to kind of trust myself in terms of when things are right. But not only that I have much more of a feeling that it’s not too late, that the time isn’t going to run out and that it’s never too late to do things. So, you know, it’s never too late to retrain to start a new career to start your own business.

Suzanne (18:19):

Yeah, I completely agree. And it’s funny. I posted on LinkedIn back a few months ago, an article that was on the BBC news online really annoyed me because they were talking about late bloomers and they mentioned this timeline of, you know, having getting married in your twenties and having children in your thirties.And, I thought, what complete and utter nonsense this is. 

You know, and how these regimes centre sort of controllers and particularly women that if we are not, you know, if we haven’t got our career sorted by this point, and if we haven’t met our ideal partner or had our children, or, and it just drives me bonkers because it’s not too late to do these things. 

And fortunately, you know, over to time, some of those constraints have started to be lifted from us and women are now having children in their forties and, starting their businesses when they want and starting their careers when they want. And, I think certainly for a lot of women, our age, that feeling when we were younger, that there was, that the clock was ticking was a very definite one. And I find it insightful, but also really interesting that here we are later in life realising that it’s not too late when possibly at 25 or 30, we thought it was. And then absolutely, you know, 30 years on you can be sitting there saying, gosh, if any, I’d realised, you know, the time that I’d have

Jo Hall (19:53):

Definitely, I really wish I’d known that. Then I really wish I had thought about it. Or somebody had said it to me.

Suzanne (19:59):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it’s a very wise thing to say. So what would you say and what would your advice be to someone who’s listening whose house is in a bit of a mess and they want to sort it out?

Jo Hall (20:11):

Okay. I mean, a quick tip for getting things straight for getting rid of that feeling of overwhelm is when you start to feel like that, then find a lightweight box or a basket move from room to room in your house and start putting things into it that don’t belong in that room. And then as you walk around your house, put the things back in the room that they do belong in. Once you’ve done the whole tour of your house, those things should be back where they actually live. So that can be a good way of just having a good kind of reset, um, on a daily or a weekly basis, whatever you can manage.

Suzanne (20:53):

I really like that. Actually, I used to, um, when the children were little pile on the stairs, but then I’d get to the bottom of the stairs and I’d look at it and think, oh good, heavens, I’ve got to now take all that upstairs. And so I, I over it. Yeah. Yeah. Just walk past it for a few days, although that was dangerous. So I clearly didn’t want to do that, but yeah. I quite like the idea of just having one container and working your way around. I think that’s really, and then you could get your kids to do the same.

Suzanne (21:19):

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I could have perhaps trained them a bit better. Okay. So thank you for your time today. What should the listener do if they would like to know more about your services?

Jo Hall  (21:36):

So please visit my website, join my Decluttering Club or message me directly. I always love talking to people so please do get in touch.

Suzanne (21:46):

Lovely. And we’ll put the links to Jo’s website and her lovely Facebook decluttering club and her Instagram profile in the show notes so that you can connect with her and join her fabulous community. Find out more about the great work that she does. Thank you, Jo.

Jo Hall (22:05):

Thank you very much for inviting me. I’ve really enjoyed Suzanne.

Suzanne (22:08):

So that’s all from today. You can find all the links in the show notes, as I said, and if you’d like to join my community on Facebook, then come and join us. It’s called the business confidence cafe. Okay. That’s a wrap for today. Thanks for listening, please subscribe. Great and review the midlife business show. And if you’ve enjoyed it, tell your business, buddy. It’s all about it. Bye for now.