Hello, and welcome to the Midlife Business Show with Suzanne Mountain. This is the podcast that celebrates all those of us who are building a business during our middle years. I’m an ex corporate girl who started my business six years ago in my fifties. And I’m loving it. This podcast is here to inspire you with conversations with other entrepreneurs about the messy and magical ups and downs of this period of our life.

Speaker 1 (00:05):

Hello, and welcome to the midlife business show with Suzanne mountain. This is the podcast that celebrates all those of us who are building a business during our middle years. I’m an ex corporate girl who started my business six years ago in my fifties. And I’m loving it. This podcast is here to inspire you with conversations with other entrepreneurs about the messy and magical ups and downs of this period of our lives. Plus, I’ll be sharing simple, actionable step by step strategies to help you build a business with impact and a life that you love.

Speaker 1 (00:43):

Hello, and welcome to this week’s Midlife Business Show. I’m delighted to welcome Joanne Burke. Joanne is a retired nurse and now a Nordic and fitness walking instructor. After a long nursing career, her children told her that she needed to improve her fitness as she wasn’t getting any younger, how kind <laugh>. And in the five years up to retirement, she took up running and Nordic walking and completed two walking marathons and lots of five Ks and half marathon running events. That’s just awesome. Joanna, would you believe for retirement her husband bought her entry to the Dublin marathon.

 I think I’d take mine out and shoot him if he did something like <laugh> <laugh> and she, and she completed it in under 5.5 hours using a walk run method. Later that year, she trained to be a fitness and Nordic walking instructor. And over the last five years has trained nearly 500 people to learn this great whole body exercise. Her nursing background has led there to teach many people with long term health conditions like Parkinson’s heart disease and cancer. And she also teaches women of a similar age to us who are new to exercise, but have gone on to achieve goals they never thought was possible before discovering Nordic walking. Welcome Joanna.

Speaker 2 (02:07):

Hi Suzanne. Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker 1 (02:09):

You’re very welcome. In fact, you were the prize draw winner from my bite size workshop that I ran in June. So lovely to, to have you On board. Thank you for that. Maybe We’ll talk about your bite size offer a little bit later.

Speaker 2 (02:25):

We can do that. Yes. It’s currently running.

Speaker 1 (02:28):

<laugh> brilliant. Brilliant. Let’s make sure we talk about that then. So also you’re my first guest from Ireland, so lovely to have you here.

Speaker 2 (02:36):

<laugh> good. Hopefully not the last,

Speaker 1 (02:38):

No, definitely. What a journey you’ve been on since starting your business. When you qualified as an instructor, what were you going to do?

Speaker 2 (02:50):

So initially I took up Nordic walking really for my own fitness and wellbeing, but then I was going to be retiring from nursing, with the intention of setting up, um, holiday accommodation in Ireland. We already had a house in Ireland, um, and we were moving back to Ireland and we bought the cottage next door to us to provide holiday accommodation. And I thought, well, just providing holiday accommodation these days, isn’t enough. You need to have a unique selling point for that. So I said, I could teach people as staying to Nordic walk. So I thought that would be a nice thing to do. So I trained to be an instructor with the sole intention of just teaching the people that were staying in the accommodation, but then the local people started to hear that I taught Nordic walking. Wouldn’t be that well known in Ireland.

Speaker 2 (03:42):

It’s much more popular in mainland Europe. It actually came from Finland. But as I say in mainland Europe, Italy, France, Holland really, really popular as well as Scandinavian countries. And it’s also very popular in the UK now, but in Ireland it’s never really taken off. So I was surprised that people were interested. So I thought, well, I could teach them. So I started teaching people locally and it has just grown and grown. So then I built a website, I’ve actually built my own website. YouTube’s a wonderful thing. Um, and I built the website. So more people got to know what we did. And then I got onto the first page of Google because we’re of obviously quite a unique thing in Ireland. So if people Google, Nord it walking island we’ll be there. And so people from around the country then started wanting to come.

Speaker 2 (04:37):

So what happened then people were booking our accommodation because they wanted to nor walk. So it was boosting our accommodation business <laugh> so that was great. So in our off season, in particular, we’d get people coming to stay. And, and I say, it is just snowballed. And we’ve taught over 500 people now to nor walk, um, around the country. And we offer classes both in our local county, which is county Claire. And we do classes in Dublin now as well. We go to Dublin about every six weeks and do classes. And that really started with the Parkinson’s group because they had contacted us to say, we understand Nordic, walking’s really good for people with Parkinson’s and would we go and teach their group? So, and we said, right, well, if we’re going to Dublin, while we’re there, we’ll offer, offer our classes to other people.

Speaker 2 (05:32):

So that’s what we do. So every six weeks we go up and run classes for everybody. So we, we do a lot of individual classes, lots and lots of one to one classes as well as group classes, because what we find certainly with people with the long term health conditions, they really benefit from one to one tuition because we, we don’t only teach Nordic walking. We do do rehabilitation walking as well. So it’s, it’s all very technical. There’s lots of different types of poles, but we assess people to see what’s the right poles for them. So we say that one size doesn’t fit all. So yeah, so it’s been, it’s been quite a journey and, and to say, and it keeps me fit cuz I’m out every day walking, which is great.

Speaker 1 (06:17):

Yeah. Amazing. So, so much information in there that I’d like to sort of dig a bit deeper into. So am I right in thinking that almost it’s it’s flipped from, oh, we’ll have accommodation and will offer the Nordic walking as a side. Whereas now the Nordic walking is the main draw and it just happens to be that you have accommodation as well, which is a, you know, a bonus, a bonus that way round

Speaker 2 (06:46):

<laugh>. Well, it is, I, I mean obviously in the height of the season or June, July, August, people are just coming on holiday and they’re usually the accommodation for holiday and lots of those won’t necessarily be walking. So that still is, you know, very much a business in its own. Right. But when people do come to say, we actually offer their audit walking for free. So they get, you know, so if anybody wants an audit walk, come and send the accommodation and we’ll teach you to audit walk. We are very lucky where we live we’re on a two site. So they could, we do all the training in our garden for, for the guests. So it’s great.

Speaker 1 (07:23):

Wonderful. That’s brilliant. And really interesting. The work you’re doing with the Parkinson’s people. My father had, um, a Parkinson’s type disease, um, called PS P oh yeah. Um, and he had a real problem with walking mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and I, I wish that I’d known that this type of thing was available when he needed that support particularly early on in his journey when he was still able to, to get around because it would’ve made big difference to him and his mobility. I think

Speaker 2 (07:56):

It hugely does. And obviously the earlier the people start to learn to use the Nordic poles, then the better, because then they have the muscle memory and they end up being able to walk for longer. But certainly what we’ve noticed with the people with Parkinson’s is, and there’s lots of research behind this as well that their gate improves. So instead of having that very shuffling gate, they could walk almost normally. And also the one thing I noticed, the people that have a tremor, maybe in one hand, as soon as they hold their poles, that tremor just disappears. So it’s, it’s amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:33):

That’s amazing. So what do you enjoy most about your business now?

Speaker 2 (08:39):

Oh, I just love seeing people improve their fitness. I think you said in my bio that, uh, we have people of a similar age, so sort of ladies over the age of 50, who are coming to us to learn to walk, these are people that have never done exercise really in their lives. They’ve gone from walking, maybe a kilometer. And they’ve now been up on the highest pointed county Claires, a Mount called Mo Lusa. They’ve been up there, they’ve been walking, we live an area called the bur, which people may be familiar with. It’s like a moonscape and they’ve been walking in the bur. Some of them walk a half marathon back in may. And, and now we we’re currently training group. We are out at seven o’clock this morning with some of our ladies cuz they’re training. Now we’re going to walk the Kerry Camino at the end of September. So that’s three days of walking 20 K a day. Wow. Uh, for three days. So, and these are ladies that literally couldn’t walk a kilometer three or four years ago. So I mean, that’s really come on.

Speaker 1 (09:48):

Yeah. Really inspirational. Isn’t it. And, and proof that it’s not never too late, that we can, you know, exactly these things now at this time of our life, we can just because we haven’t done it so far doesn’t mean that we can’t go and learn something new.

Speaker 2 (10:02):

Exactly, exactly. And you know, tho those ladies are clearly it’s interracial, but I also have another lady who came to me, uh, she’d come down from county Mayo and she came to learn. She actually used the rehabilitation poles. She really struggled. She could barely walk through the car to my garden. And she now sends me pictures every year. She goes up to her family up in Dal every summer. And her aim was to walk from her house to the top of the hill. And now she does that and she couldn’t, you know, and she could barely walk to the end of the garden. Yeah. So, and, and to me, that’s what I love about my job is that a, it doesn’t feel like a job. Yeah. But it’s just to see what a difference it actually makes to people’s lives, you know? And that the health and wellbeing has changed for the better. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:58):

And it has a huge impact on their mental health as well as their physical health. Doesn’t

Speaker 2 (11:02):

It? Exactly. Yeah. Hugely. I mean, I know mind, uh, the UK charity, they did some research about actually walking in nature. So this applies to any walking. Yeah. Or any exercise, not just audit walking, but actually just getting out and 94% of people say they feel better if they get out for a walk. Yeah. So <laugh> yeah. You know, that just goes to show.

Speaker 1 (11:26):

I, I think it’s so right. Isn’t it, it’s just, we’ve, you know, there’s a danger, we’ve become disconnected from what the world is actually about and just getting out there and breathing and seeing different space and watching the, the seasons change and stuff. It’s so good for our soul, isn’t it?

Speaker 2 (11:45):

It really is. It, it really makes such a huge difference. And I think what happened during COVID was a positive cuz people were going out walking a little bit more, but also the other thing that also happened for some people, because they were working from home, they weren’t going out and then they got a bit afraid to go out. So now it’s about how do we get those people back out again in a safe environment basically to enjoy that. So that’s, that’s also a challenge that we, we are trying to work with people, you know, if, if they’re struggling to get out. So we would have a lot of people that have had some mental health issues.

Speaker 1 (12:24):

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I know that there are still a lot of people who are very anxious now or about going out, you know, the, everything that took place during the pandemic made us feel that being outside or being out of our, our space, our home is not safe. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And you know, if, if you get to that position where you really feel and believe that’s very hard to then suddenly say, oh, well the virus is still out there, but you can go out now, you know, it’s like, well, hang on a minute. The messaging is very mixed here. So exactly. You know, I think there are a lot of people who are still struggling with that. So it’s good to know that, you know, things are happening to help them get their lives back to, you know, a new way of living looking.

Speaker 2 (13:14):

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:15):

So you, you said that you love your business and it’s very clear from listening to you talk about it, but what’s, what’s the thing that you struggle with the most, or you have struggled with

Speaker 2 (13:25):

The biggest thing I’ve struggled with is charging people. <laugh>

Speaker 2 (13:30):

Because, because I love what I do. It, it really doesn’t feel like a job to me, but then equally, you know, I do need to make some money <laugh> and I just think, well, why would people want to pay me to teach them to walk? <laugh> because that’s send you, what do, but I actually have my lady say to me now, oh, you know, you just don’t charge it off. And I say, yeah, but you, I do, I do love it. And I want it to be available to everybody. In fact, I’ve just recently started doing some volunteer work with art women shed. I dunno if you have them in the UK, the women’s shed, but they do a lot of work for the Ukrainian, uh, community at the moment. I’m just doing some volunteer, but I’m actually gonna be running walks for them. But they’ve already said to me, but we will pay you to come and run those walks for us, but the end users don’t have to pay. So that’s actually really nice because I can still provide it, but somebody else is picking up the, the tap. So that, that works really well. So,

Speaker 1 (14:38):

So it feels easier to charge another business in your mind than to charge a member of the public.

Speaker 2 (14:44):

Exactly. Yes.

Speaker 1 (14:45):

Yeah. And I don’t think you, the only one, you know, all of us become aware of our money mindsets when we are running our own businesses. Exactly. Because talking about money, you know, if we are not charging, it’s a hobby, it’s not a business. It’s exactly, you know, and all of us deserve to be paid for our talents and our wisdom and our experience. And that’s what we’re sharing. And the truth is that people value it more when they’ve paid for it in some way. But when it comes to actually working out what the price might be, that’s when most of us get ourselves in the biggest tan

Speaker 2 (15:20):

<laugh> exactly. Well, you mentioned earlier that I’d done your bite size off the workshop. And I found that really helpful. Not only to cause in conjunction, we’re doing the workshop, I listened to your podcasts on pricing and everything. Cause it all fitted in when I was trying to put together my bite size offer, I think so how can I make this look very attractive at a price that I’m willing to accept and gives me some money, but toward the end user, they’re getting really good value for money. And I think that’s the bite size workshop gives you those tools to do that. So, so this week I’ve been running my bite size offer and it’s been a summer camp. Uh, so first time I’ve ever run it. So the, the customers, they had three days of learning to nor well, two days of learning to nor walk.

Speaker 2 (16:14):

We also run, um, Nordic circuit classes, which is an exercise class. So one day they had a day of, well, this is two hours a day. They do. So we did two hours of Nordic circuits doing the exercises. So anybody that ACHI, you know, completed those three days on the Thursday and Friday, they got three walks. So we put free walks, but I offered those free, walks out to our regular walkers as well, so that they could come and join those walks. And then the person that did all five sessions, they’re going to be in a draw now to win another five walks. Brilliant. So, so what, what, what it taught me is you can charge a price, but you can give quite a lot. That’s not necessarily costing me a lot. <laugh> in terms of I’m out walking anyway, but I’m still getting revenue.

Speaker 2 (17:08):

They’re getting really good value. And then going forward, hopefully that they’ll continue to come out on our walks. We offer, we do class passes for our walks. So the more walks they buy up front, the cheaper they get. So, you know, they either buy 10, 20 or 30 walks for the year. It really got me thinking about what do I offer because I do do one to one lessons, but I’m even thinking about the terminology I use. And I’m thinking about, you know, instead of calling it a one-to-one private lesson, let’s call it a masterclass because that changes people’s mindsets. I believe in the words that you use. Yeah. Like you were saying, people value things if they pay for it. And it’s almost like if you are too cheap, it can’t be very good.

Speaker 1 (18:02):

<laugh>. Yeah. And, and that’s very true. That’s what people think, you know, cause they’ll look around and they have a price in their mind. Um, and if you, if you come in way under that, they’re like, well, mm it’s a bit suspicious, you know? Exactly.

Speaker 1 (18:16):

And so, yeah, you’re, you’re a spot on there. And also one of the other ladies on the, the last round of the bite size workshop said to me, it made me realize that my other offerings are not priced high enough because I had almost nowhere to go with a bite size. I couldn’t drop pricing down very much because I already wasn’t charging enough. Yeah. And she, she said actually putting a bite size offer is giving me permission to price the other offerings. Uh, but you know, a more realistic level to actually make some money in my business while still, you know, having a great value bite size offer and adding more value in, you know, to, to, to the more premium signature, you

Speaker 2 (19:00):

Know. Exactly. Yeah. So I, I guess so for my business as well, I’m now also an agent for selling Nordic polls. So obviously I’ve got a product I can sell on top. So, so that I could keep my prices still fairly reasonable for teaching with, with the hope that they’re gonna buys basically. So, and, and generally that people do so. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:26):

And that’s sort of passive income that comes from that. That’s really useful too. So then you are building, you know, and I talk about this on previous podcasts and I’ll come back to it again, but then you are building, you know, your, your product suite and your value ladder or in one place so that you know, what your potential income might be. You can price it, you can go, okay. If we run the bite size offer and we get X number of people in that’s X number of money. But if from that X number by the polls, that’s that income. Exactly. If they then buy 10 or if they then buy 20 or if they then buy 40 walks, that’s that, so

Speaker 2 (20:09):

Exactly. So it’s an incremental.

Speaker 1 (20:11):

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:12):

Yeah. And I think the other thing that I’ve learned over the years of, you know, it’s about five years, I’ve been running the business. When I started out, I tried to offer things to everybody. Yeah. And it was like, I’ve, I’ve gotta get in whoever walk up by my services. Yeah. But now I’ve come down to my niche market and my niche market is very much sort of women over 50, um, and people with long term health conditions. Yeah. So now my, my husband is now a, um, instructor as well. Cuz you know, we got so busy. So he trained to be an instructor, obviously he’s part-time he still works full-time as an it consultant, but he’s part-time but he does more the extreme end of things, in terms of people learning to run with poles and go in the mountains, he’s a, he’s an ultra marathon runner for while, you know, he actually hasn’t done that since COVID, but you know, but he has the skills of doing that. So if we have people approach us, he can do those. And that is quite a premium offering that we have, cuz it’s very niche. There’s not anybody that really does that. So, but they’re few and far between those much higher value things, uh, within the business. But so, but for the day to day stuff that I’m doing, I can still keep the price is reasonable. But like you say, the scaling they’re gonna add in extra things as we go.

Speaker 1 (21:40):

Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like, you know, you’ve got it worked out now. I think a lot of us, when we first set up our businesses and we’re in service businesses, we know we can help lots of people and that distracts us from nicheing and, and the, you know, always the fear with nicheing is, but that’ll be less people. Yeah. But actually the reality is as soon as you niche and your messaging is clear, you bring in and attract more people because you’re talking directly to someone rather than trying to talk to everyone.

Speaker 2 (22:10):

Exactly. Yeah. And it, and it’s also finding where those people hang out. Yeah. How do you get to those people? Yeah. Um, I’m actually going to be starting to advertise a new product for September on it’s called sitter to fitter. So very much for those people that absolutely do no exercise, but need to get better at it. Again, it’s gonna be aimed at women over 50 and I’m fortunate that I’ve been able to partner up. I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard of Harley street at home, fine street at home is a weight management and lifestyle, uh, program for, um, menopause or women. Now they, they are high, high experts. They have doctors and dietician on the group and they are going to work with me. Well, you know, I, I could actually offer their product as part of my service, which is great because that’s getting very much to the women. Now it’s a UK based group, but they have lots of followers in Ireland. So, so we’re very excited about that. So that’s quite new and nice. Yeah. So we’re yeah. So, so I, I think that’s the other thing I’ve also learned that collaboration is important. You can’t do everything yourself always. Yeah. <laugh> although we always try to, when we try, when we set out, you think I have to do everything, but I’ve learned I don’t have to do everything.

Speaker 1 (23:48):

No. And actually outsourcing the bits you don’t like or the bits that you can’t do very well, um, to someone who loves those things. Exactly. Um, and you know, that’s how economy runs, you know, we earn money, we spend money, you know, whether it’s on our business or, you know, in our high streets and that then other people earn money and spend money <laugh> and that’s, you know, the purpose of money is to keep it moving, not to have it set somewhere, you know, just building up. So I’m a big advocate of that, but business collaborations, where you are working with, you know, another group of people, I think we have to be really careful about and make sure everybody’s clear on what everybody is putting in and what everybody’s going to get out of it. Exactly. But once you’ve done that work and if it’s really aligned with the other things that you do, then they can work really well.

Speaker 2 (24:38):

Exactly. Yeah. So, and I mean, they they’re offering something that I can’t offer and I’m offering something that they don’t offer. So yeah. But we, but we we’ve got a common, a common goal I guess. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:53):

Yeah. Yeah. That’s good. So what would be your business tip then?

Speaker 2 (24:59):

So I think my business tip is really look at something that you love doing, but you also have to be realistic in that, you know, is the business that you are developing. Does it need to pay all your bills or do you have another source of income? Cause whilst it’s nice, if you are, you are loving what you’re doing, but if it’s got to solely support you, is that realistic? Is it going to do that? And if it’s not, then you need to think about either changing your business model so you can do all of that, but then you might end up doing something you don’t love <laugh> or you know, how can you supplement it? And I know lots of women that go into business at an older age, they tend to start off part-time doing things and then gradually it becomes the full time. So yeah, but do something that you love because it does make life a lot easier

Speaker 1 (25:57):

<laugh> it certainly does. Absolutely certainly does. So what mistakes do you see business owners making?

Speaker 2 (26:05):

I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make is trying to offer too many different things. I was guilty of it myself. Um, I thought the more I offer, the more people I get, but then the message gets lost. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so stick with what you are good at. Don’t try and diversify. So, you know, if you are a yoga teacher stick with being a yoga teacher, don’t try to be a business coach, a weight loss management expert, whatever, stick at what you’re good at and the business will come, uh, because you become the expert in that area instead of, or, you know, if you are a like fitness instructors, don’t offer 300 classes, you know, offer, you know, five <laugh> of different types, just, yeah. I think really niche market again and see, you know, what are you offering and who you offering it to?

Speaker 1 (27:06):

Yeah. I think if we keep it simple, one is easier for us to maintain as more business owners and two it’s easier for other people to understand what we do and therefore referers. Um, whereas if we offer loads of things, people will be thinking, you know, given the, the fitness instructor example that you use, people are thinking, oh, I think Jenny does that. But I, I can’t quite remember. Whereas if Jenny just does one particular type or two or three particular classes, someone straight away will go, oh, Jenny does that, what’s that

Speaker 2 (27:37):

Exactly.

Speaker 1 (27:38):

And it’s very easy then. So that sort of relationship marketing will kicks in for you and people will be referring you. Whereas if you are doing too many things, then people will think, oh, I don’t wanna mention her name if she doesn’t do that. So they won’t say

Speaker 2 (27:52):

Anything, anything. Yeah. And people get confused. Yeah. But also for yourself to actually run the business, it’s like, you start losing track of, oh, how many people did that and how many people did this. Yeah. And it, I, I just think, as I say, I, I offered lots of products when I started thinking it was the right thing to do, but now I’m, you know, I’ve really changed how I do things.

Speaker 1 (28:17):

Yeah. I think, you know, keeping it simple and, and, you know, three level of products, one in each category and you’ve got two, two ideal clients, two different avatars haven’t you you’ve got your yes. Your, you know, women who are learning to walk as it were <laugh> and you’ve got your health, um, related needs. So two different avatars. So, you know, different offers for those and separating them out quite clearly is the way to go. Yeah. So thinking about when you were younger, what advice now would you give to your younger self?

Speaker 2 (28:54):

Make sure you stay fit and healthy. <laugh> I left it quite late in life to take up fitness at school. I hated sport. Uh, I, you know, wasn’t as well. I, I like gymnastics and I liked swimming, but I was not great at them. It wasn’t my thing. Uh, when my children had told me to, you know, improve my fitness, I was thinking, oh my goodness, maybe do I really want to do that? But since I’ve have discovered exercise, I love it. I actually have arthritis now in my hips, if I didn’t do the exercise that I currently do, I think I’ve been a very different place now. And I’d be fairly immobile that, you know, I’m up every morning, yoga walking. I absolutely adore exercise. And I say, it’s never too late, but my younger self, I wish I’d really taken. <laugh> more, more heat of doing exercise. And I encourage my children to exercise and they’re both very, very fit people. Now, my husband was always fit. He was a, he was a Mountaineer. So, and I think that I just, I spent all my time looking after the children and thought that that was my place, but didn’t look after me. So always look after number one.

Speaker 1 (30:20):

Yeah. I think that’s really important. And I think, you know, for, for a lot of us women, that’s what we do. Isn’t it, we’re the carer, um, for our children and our partners. And we focus our attention more on other people. And I think quite a lot of women get to, you know, our time of life and then think, oh good grief. You know, suddenly age is creeping up on me. Yeah. And I don’t want to be unfit. I want to stay healthy for as long as I can. So I need to do something about it now. So great advice.

Speaker 2 (30:52):

Yeah. And it’s never too late ladies

Speaker 1 (30:55):

<laugh>. Yeah. Well and truly well and truly, well, thank you very much for talking to me today. I’ve really enjoyed it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> where can the listeners find out more about both your Nordic walking and your accommodation?

Speaker 2 (31:10):

So we have two websites. Uh, we have Nordic fitness island is our Nordic walking website and there are our links to our accommodation on there, but we also have bedale house and cottage is our other website.

Speaker 1 (31:25):

Right. Okay. And we’ll pop the links to those in the show notes so that they can click through and have a look, but the idea of going to Ireland and doing some nor walking while there sounds, sounds very exciting. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:38):

We have a Facebook and Instagram pages for both. Right. Okay. So you can follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Perfect. For both the things.

Speaker 1 (31:48):

Perfect. Thank you very much for joining me this week. I’ve really enjoyed talking to you. I could talk to you all day.

Speaker 2 (31:56):

Thanks. So I could talk all day.

Speaker 1 (32:01):

That’s why we get on so well, isn’t it <laugh> oh, no, thanks very much. Joanne. If you’ve enjoyed this episode of the midlife business show, then please, um, make sure to subscribe and to leave as a review. And by all means, share it with your best business buddies. Tell them about the show so that more people get to listen than hear wisdom from other business owners like Joan. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (32:29):

Thanks. Viv Ann.

Speaker 1 (32:31):

Bye for now. Okay. That’s a wrap for today. Thanks for listening. Please. Subscribe, rate, and review the midlife business show. And if you’ve enjoyed it, tell your business buddies all about it. Buy for now.